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Your opinion about the ported SWT?
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keinfarbton



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Stuttgart - Germany

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Your opinion about the ported SWT? Reply with quote

Is the SWT port useful?

Are you using the SWT port already?

What is missing to make it better?
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BLS



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 44
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Your opinion about the ported SWT? Reply with quote

Hi Frank


keinfarbton wrote:
Is the SWT port useful?


SWT is in my opinion one of the most important D projects; (if not the most important one)

Quote:

Are you using the SWT port already?

NO, library dependencies are picking on my nerves, see sugestion below.

Quote:

What is missing to make it better?


SWT/dejavu should be bundeled with Tango, the Mango XML part should be moved to Tango ...
Smaller binaries. (A Walter problem, I know Smile )
JFace support

Draw2D support to enable development of :
1)GUI Builder
2)Graphs

Bjoern Lietz-Spendig
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bobef



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Your opinion about the ported SWT? Reply with quote

I second on BLS's opinion. It is one of the most important D projects, because it is (in my opinion) the most useful GUI port. But dependencies are pain in the ass, at least. I haven't managed to compile it at all...
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keinfarbton



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Stuttgart - Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Dependencies

Did you notice the new README. It now explicitely tells you, which revision of tango was tested successfully.
This should be OK to not have any wrong dependencies.

2. Mango in Tango

There is a discussion in the tango project forum, about what XML parser shall be integrated into tango.
http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/forum/3
In the moment, i see no better option, as using the mango parser.

3. Smaller binaries

As you said...
Yes they suck, as well as compile time, but this will be solved with the help of the hopefully soon coming D reflection feature.

4. Additional support for JFace and Draw2D

I had a closer look at JFace. And i came to the conclusion, this port can't be done in the moment. A precondition would be to have a more complete JRE port. This can't be done manually.
Another thing is, that JFace depends on OSGi, and it will need a good concept for porting it. This will be hard work. But I think, if this is done, the JFace port, and probably more of Eclipse, could be possible.

Draw2D, you mean the awt package. The sun jre is copyrighted, so i cannot simply port it. Sun want to move all JRE to an open source license, and will call it OpenJDK, this can be a chance to port the whole JRE implementation.

Abstract:
Would you please give the SWT compiling/building it a new try? With the better documentation in the README and the new rake/dsss toolchain.

So, what *can* we do, with this SWT?
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BLS



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 44
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:08 am    Post subject: What to do with this SWT Reply with quote

Hi Frank,
Yes I will retry to build the SWT toolchain again.
Allow me a few notes /
I am not very enthusiastic about having to install an other Ruby based Make tool. DSSS is more a part of the problem than beeing a solution. Unfortunately the new CMakeD project, which probabely is the tool of choice, is at a stand still.
Okay, enough negative stuff.

In case that I succeed in building the libs, I will create an WINDOWS installer.

So what to do with this SWT /
1) porting the Poseidon IDE to SWT. (I can do that, with some help)
2) BOBEF is working on a GUI debugger front end. (WIN only) based on SWT
3) Merge this projects. Merge means based on the DDL; which hopefully is available when we need it.
4) Use TIOPORT to semi-translate a JAVA SVN client (see wishlist, guess who wrote it)
5) Implement IDE SVN support. again using DDL as technology for our plugin architecture.

I mean this is not a toy project, Good for SWT, Good for D, and well, it is good to have a nice, extendable IDE at all.

The question is : Shall we start right now ? I mean it depends on how many changes on "our" source we have to expect after D reflection and how difficult it will be to implement DDL based plugin tech. LATER ?

Just an idea, I guess a good one Surprised

Bjoern
btw: Bobef is also thinking about a plugin based SWT platform... hope he will share his opinion.
pps: the french keyboard layout is driving me crazy
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bobef



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this already, but something happened and it is not posted. So I will have to write it again. I gave a new try to compile SWT. The old story again. Tango install guide says I need to replace phobos and I want to use phobos not Tango... so until I can't use Tango as a normal lib along with Phobos - end of story. I tried to do it, despite the install guide, but then mango won't compile, so I couldn't even try to compile SWT.

Unlike BLS I don't mind ruby or whatever build tool is needed. If I have to use it I will, but for me the perfect is something more simpler. Like build, or makefile or even build.bat . When something depends on so many things, that on their turn depend on on something else... it becomes linux Smile

To BLS
Quote:
btw: Bobef is also thinking about a plugin based SWT platform... hope he will share his opinion.


I am not thinking of it. It is a fact. My debugger GUI is the proof of that. The debugger plugin is complete already, but I need to do some more testing. I will soon put a website for the platform. The platform/plugin design is very simple but proofs to be very effective. But without DDL it makes no sense... I will share the whole design (along with source Smile) when I create the web site soon, because now, without DDL, it is not working anyway and I am too lazy to write that much Smile
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simhau



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I compiled and tried the examples. The control example crashed often (with listeners, dialogs etc.), so I'm waiting until it is more stable until I make the switch. When it is more stable I will probably use it for all my tango projects.
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jcc7



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 657
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobef wrote:
I posted this already, but something happened and it is not posted. So I will have to write it again. I gave a new try to compile SWT. The old story again. Tango install guide says I need to replace phobos and I want to use phobos not Tango... so until I can't use Tango as a normal lib along with Phobos - end of story. I tried to do it, despite the install guide, but then mango won't compile, so I couldn't even try to compile SWT.
Have you heard about tangobos? I'm not sure I understand the details of your problem, but (if tangobos works as advertised) it might solve your problem.

tangobos website wrote:
Tangobos is a compatibility layer to allow most Phobos software to be compiled unmodified on Tango. It is effectively a port of Phobos to Tango: it is only modified to the degree required to make it compile.
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bobef



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. I think tangobos will work, but I still don't want to use Tango, because I like phobos and I see no point in chaning it. The stdlib is something you should always be able to count on, and I don't know what will happen with Tango in future. What will really help me is photangos Smile But thank you, it seems very useful, and if someday I understand what is the point of changing phobos (I tried the Tango project page, but they only say how to migrate from phobos, not why) tangobos will certainly be a good start. Or maybe if all major D projects like Tioport and DDL insist on using Tango I will have not much of a choice.
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bobef



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another try (with Tango). I have installed everything as the readme says. It works without any problems. I've managed to build the minimal hello world from the wiki . It works too.

Is it possible to use char[] instead of new blah.blah.blah.String ? I understand it currently is not, but would it be possible to make tioport generate char[] instead of String? And maybe when Object is cast to String and vice versa some wrapper class could be used? Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I am not yet familiar how exactly tioport works. I know that DWT works around this problem by wrapping data types in objects.
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BLS



Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 44
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: SWT Tango DDL Reply with quote

Hi Bobef,
as far as I am informed the DDL folks are also moving to"ward" Tango. (which makes beside some sense because the "old" DDL uses Mango IO ) Unfortunately there is no DDL status quo information available ....

Bjoern
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bobef



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: SWT Tango DDL Reply with quote

BLS wrote:
Hi Bobef,
as far as I am informed the DDL folks are also moving to"ward" Tango. (which makes beside some sense because the "old" DDL uses Mango IO ) Unfortunately there is no DDL status quo information available ....

Bjoern


Yeah, I got the idea by looking at the DDL's timeline. This makes things harder for me, because DWT won't work with Tango and Tioport's SWT is not ready to replace it yet (in my opinion). 28mb helloworld is just impossible to distribute in binary form... The other thing that concerns me is the compile time. On my PC the Tiports's helloworld takes like 10seconds or more to compile against 1 second for DWT. When the DWT's helloworld becomes a real project it takes 2-5-10 seconds to compile. I am afraid if Tioport's 10 seconds become 20-50 or 100 for bigger projects, because even if I am more careful (which I am not), sometimes dmd just forces you to recompile several times... You got the point.
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afb



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Your opinion about the ported SWT? Reply with quote

keinfarbton wrote:
Is the SWT port useful?

Are you using the SWT port already?

What is missing to make it better?


I made an effort to make it run on Mac OS X and GDC,
but since it didn't work out so far - I'm not using it either.
I also found it to be rather slow to build and have big binaries.
So the project is not very important to me, at the moment...

Will give it another try when Tango 1.0 is out and when/if
GDC supports the circular templates that it (dejavu) uses.
But for now I am using wxWidgets instead of SWT, and
Code::Blocks instead of Eclipse. And it's working rather good.
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torhu



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been able to link my SWT app yet (ported from DWT), seems to be a tangobos problem. But compilation times does seem a lot longer than dwt/phobos.

I think tiport and swt might turn out to be very important for D, but it's a bit early to tell until the basic problems are sorted out. And I wish that it would use phobos instead of tango. Or at least that someone creates a 'photango' library.

So I'm holding my breath for now. Wink
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keinfarbton



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Stuttgart - Germany

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simhau
Quote:
I compiled and tried the examples. The control example crashed often (with listeners, dialogs etc.), so I'm waiting until it is more stable until I make the switch. When it is more stable I will probably use it for all my tango projects.


This is not a stability problem in SWT, the problem here is, that the example uses dynamic invokation, which is not implemented in dejavu. SWT itself does not use this, so it is only a problem in the example code.
see also: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tioport/wiki/port_swt#ControlsExample

I hope this helps you to continue in using SWT Smile
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